British High Commissioner Jonathan Drew, and Mr Tris Bartlett, Country Director, British Council, Mauritius, jointly talked to l’express about why they are fascinated by Shakespeare’s works and his influence on culture and society as the world celebrates the 400th anniversary of his death.

The Shakespeare Lives programme was launched last Wednesday, the 6th of January. What’s the idea behind this series of activities?

JD: It’s a fantastic programme which not only marks the 400th anniversary of Shakespeare’s death but also celebrates a colossus who may have been English in origin but who today belongs to the world. He introduced 3,000 words into the English language and so many phrases, like the knock-knock joke from Macbeth or to ‘wait with bated breath’. He has moulded our ever-evolving English language.

TB: Shakespeare is known as a poet and a playwright but, for me, most of all he is a dramatist. Better than any other person I can think of, he has studied the human condition and transposed it to his plays in a way that we can enjoy it. He has also enabled us to articulate our own thoughts better. He has put into words what very few people were able to put into words so successfully before or after him.

What is your take on the language used in Shakespeare’s plays? Can people even understand the period English used?

JD: Shakespearean English is of its time but it can still be understood today. Nelson Mandela quoted a line from Julius Caesar during his imprisonment, ‘Cowards die many times before their death, the valiant never taste of death but once.’ When you hear that line, you can still perfectly understand it. Some of the words may make you scratch your head but, if you let yourself go, be guided by the verses, you will understand their beauty even today.

TB: It’s the rhythm, the emotions which matter. Even if the audience is not familiar with a word, the way it’s delivered, the timing of it, the music, it’s something people can absorb and go with.

There is a lot of mystery surrounding Shakespeare’s death. Apparently his gravestone holds a curse…

JD: There are so many conspiracy theories surrounding Shakespeare. He himself loved conspiracy theories and you often find them in his works. I am sure he would be overjoyed that, even today, people still have these theories about his grave and his death itself. He would probably be encouraging someone to write a play about it.

Since we’re already on the subject, what would Shakespeare think of today’s world? What would be his take on terrorism for example?

TB: Shakespeare was of his time but his writing is still relevant today. The theme of terrorism is present in many of his works, even in Othello. Most of the circumstances of the human condition he wrote about in his plays are as relevant today as they were 400 years ago. I think that he would have a lot of fun with the information revolution and the use of technology. You can imagine Shakespeare engaging with that, poking fun at it and studying the human interaction and evolution.

JD: But I can’t quite imagine Romeo and Juliet on their smartphones and texting. But it could just happen; I think he would have lots of fun adapting today’s world for everyone to enjoy. There are many people who translate Shakespeare’s plays and adapt it in their own ways and I think that’s a great thing. It makes Shakespeare so much bigger than just a playwright or just English.

Shakespeare wrote his stories and plays and poems in English but then he became bigger than just English. Could you say that he’s the biggest ambassador for Great Britain elsewhere in the world?

JD: Shakespeare is undoubtedly one of our greatest ambassadors. Some people would quote from Churchill, others would quote Elizabeth I, but Shakespeare is absolutely high up on the list. But what’s fantastic is that because he is a playwright, a dramatist, a poet, you can take Shakespeare anywhere in the world and put on one of his plays. Everyone can relate to them because they’re based on human emotion, whatever the language. Shakespeare is an ambassador for plays, for culture, for literature well beyond the UK.

TB: It’s actually Shakespeare’s relevance in the world today that shows the strength of his works. For example, this year we might be bringing an adapted version of Richard III set in a 20th century totalitarian society backdrop. It is this ability of people to interpret his work to highlight other aspects which is wonderful.

Shakespeare lives through his works, his plays, his poems. But what about his progeny? People don’t really know about his children. Do we have a great-greatgreat-grandchild of Shakespeare?

JD: Unfortunately the Shakespeare family has died out. There’s no known direct descendant of the great bard. I’m sure conspiracy theorists might attempt to find someone (laughs) but unfortunately there’s no one.

Who owns Shakespeare’s works then? Are there copyright or royalties issues?

JD: After 400 years you don’t have to worry about that aspect anymore because, as far as I know, the limit to royalties is 70 years after the death of an author. Anyone can reproduce the work of Shakespeare. Any copyright issue now is mostly over the interpretations of his work.

So Shakespeare’s works belong to the world then?

JD: Absolutely, you have no excuse for not reading his works. (Laughs) ‘Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.’

You quote Shakespeare beautifully!

JD: Thank you! Just this piece from a sonnet has been interpreted so many different ways over time, some would compare it to politicians, or meeting  someone of bad faith. These lines, when you listen to them, they open doors in your mind. They trigger thoughts and emotions.

TB: And Shakespeare has put in words emotions that were until then often left unexpressed.

Shakespeare’s works certainly trigger many emotions. He has written tragedies, comedies, some dark, others light. Why the choice of “Hamlet” for Mauritius?

JD: I think that it’s because it’s one of his best plays where he delves deep into the human mind. When we talk of Shakespeare the psychologist, that’s why people like Hamlet. There’s thought in it, deep concern, passion, self-exploration.

TB: Hamlet is one of his most powerful pieces of work and probably the most recurrent aspect of any Shakespeare celebration, the work that highlights the human condition more than any other.

Apart from “Hamlet”, another very well-known play of Shakespeare is “Romeo and Juliet”. However, many people find it overrated. What’s your take on it and what’s your favourite play?

TB: Romeo and Juliet epitomises young love, the sort of impossible dream; it touches our most basic emotions. It’s certainly not the most philosophical or deep play but that’s the beauty of Shakespeare’s works. There’s something in them for everybody. My favourite play is Othello because I love this study of cultural isolation, how this wonderful person is brought down by many factors. Ultimately he loses his bearings; it is so tragic and so beautiful.

JD: To come back to Romeo and Juliet, I think that Shakespeare was a forward thinker and, as someone from a mixed family – my mother is from India, my father’s family originate from France – I like the message conveyed through Romeo and Juliet. He says don’t betied down by social constructs or family feuds, always see the best in people. I’m not sure I do have a favourite play but, if I have to see a last play before I die, I would probably most enjoy Macbeth. I think in life, we have choices to make and Shakespeare puts forward that point very well in Macbeth. If we make bad choices, some things can come backto quite literally haunt us.

You say Shakespeare is a forward thinker and, 400 years back, he was weaving in his plays a sort of gender fluidity through Viola or Rosalind who disguise themselves as boys…

TB: Back then, since it was boys who played the roles of female characters on stage, this gender confusion was very central to theatre. Shakespeare having a mischievous mind, I think he decided to work that into his plays as well. It was just another dramatic angle he played on.

JD: I think that creative industries are the ones that encourage wider thinking. You have to remember that the Elizabethan era was something of a golden age. Who knows if he was only being his creative self or was even more ahead of his time? But then, this whole issue has been present since the beginning of history. If we look back in time, we could argue that there are periods in history when we were more enlightened than today and vice versa. So long as we study history and continue to be broadminded, we can continue together and the world can inch forward together.

That’s true! When we look back in time we say it was better then and that the world is now darker…

JD: When you study the Dark Ages in Europe, you learn that what was happening in Iran and in the Middle East at that time was incredible. Learning, knowledge, mathematics, the sciences, astronomy were being pushed forward in great universities. But now it’s Europe that has great universities. I hope more Mauritians will come to the UK to study in our universities! Now we hope that as much as they brought light to Europe when there was darkness, we can now be the light to those countries which are facing difficult times.

There has been a reversal in roles then?

TB: Civilisations come and go, great African empires, dynasties in China and Egypt. All of our cultures have such wonderful aspects to them and we are lucky to be in an era where you can access the best of each culture and learn from them all. And through Shakespeare Lives, we want to light a fresh spark in Mauritius to continue such cultural interaction.

JD: Shakespeare Lives is an endeavour to safeguard that spirit and that’s one of the reasons why we have asked the Globe (Editor’s note: Shakespeare Globe Theatre) to exceptionally include a matinée performance which will be especially for school children. It’s an opportunity for them to have direct experience of the artist through his play.

I am really looking forward to see this play! One last thing, every little word of Shakespeare is analysed and interpreted. What if he only meant what he wrote literally?

TB: But isn’t that the essence of being an artist? You are creating something yourself but you are putting it out there for others to make of it what they will. I think that Shakespeare probably did that better than anyone else even today. The sonnet about the lily and the weed, my interpretation of that is that a lily shines brightly but then crashes whereas a weed carries on growing quietly; they have different properties. He creates a world of possibilities and we can go into them as deeply as we like.

JD: Once you put your words on paper, they cease to belong to you and that’s what Shakespeare shows. I think he would be gratified to know that, 400 years on, he is the person who holds the record of most films made based on his body of work. He would love it and probably be horrified as well because he would not know what to make of his fame. Every artist wants fame – but then there is fame, there is global fame and there is Shakespeare.