“We need to have a one-stop shop where there are boxes for the 500 horses and where the training and racing can be done together without transporting the horses. Presently, we have to bring the horses to the Champ de Mars from Floréal. This is done every single day and it costs us a lot of money. It has always been a big problem for us.” 

“Illegal betting according to the Report of the Commission of Inquiry amounts to Rs800 million.”

“Our present racetrack is now too small. We just can’t develop it any further.”

I understand this is your sixth year as administrator of the Mauritius Turf Club (MTC). In what state of mind are you?

In a fighting mood.

Is there that much to fight about in this place?

Yes, you have to fight about everything. We are at a stage that is important for the future, with many new projects. We must put things right, and get them right in the interest of the racing industry.

What are the important issues for you as president?

We must try to fight illegal betting, which is very bad for the racing industry. I mean for the MTC and for the government as well. We have to introduce internet betting and commingling. We have to think about what I call 'debit betting', so as to get rid of 'credit betting', which is illegal. 

How? On your own website, that is the MTC’s, you yourself say that you don’t have enough resources to tackle illegal betting, so how are you going to work around that?

Of course, the MTC can’t do this on its own. La Police des Jeux are supposed to track illegal bookmakers and those who are involved in illegal betting which, according to the Report of the Commission of Inquiry, amounts to Rs800 million.

One way is to introduce 'debit betting', allowing the punters to have deposits with bookmakers with whom they can bet afterwards by phone. This is done with the Tote, so I don’t see any reason why it can’t be done with bookmakers. 

If we turn to the elections at the MTC, every time there is an election, it’s never done in a gentlemanly way. There are always factions. There are two clans here. What are these two clans, and what is the agenda of each of them?

Every time there is an election, you always have two potential winners and people are either for or against them. But what is sure is that our elections are conducted in a very democratic way.

Aren’t there are two factions that are always fighting?

You can say so! But this is what elections are all about.

Does it have to be like that?

I haven’t said that and, trust me, it was not like that before!

What happened?

I think that in all elections, you are bound to have people for or against each and every candidate. So, that creates a sort of division. The rest is just a perception!

Is it?

Yes. I think that these elections are covered in such a way by the press that you have the impression that each and every year, there is a big tug of war going on at the MTC. Have you seen the number of articles on these elections? The press coverage doesn’t help the MTC. There is an over-exposure, which is very often harmful.

Is the politics within the club also a perception?

I think so! We are here to work with any government. We are not politicians. There is a general assembly, which is held every year in a democratic way. Our members are called to vote, and elect the administrators, who are here to serve the MTC and, whether we like it or not, we are bound to work with the authorities, the government, the Gambling Regulatory Authority, La Police des Jeux etc.

You are perceived to be very close to the Labour government, particularly to Navin Ramgoolam, and the fear was expressed that your election might upset the government of the day. Has it?

Let me get this clear once and for all. I have been general manager of different sugar estates in Mauritius. So, of course, I have been close to all governments and heads of government in power. To come back to your question, we did not hear any official complaint from the government itself. We have just heard of it on one of the private radio stations. How true is that information? Nobody knows! 

You have been an administrator for five years and now you are the president, and you may stand again as candidate after that. 

Doesn’t the MTC seem like the political arena?

For the last five years, I was an administrator. This is the first year that I am president. When you are elected, you are elected for three years as administrator. And after these three years, your mandate is over. If you want to come back, you have to be elected again. This is how it works. 

That’s what I mean! Isn’t it time you introduced a limit in the number of mandates an administrator or a president should have?

For the time being it’s like that and if changes are made, we’ll have to go through a general assembly. If the members feel that you can help the club, of course they will come to you and say, ‘please come and help the club’. On my part, I feel that I can bring a plus to my club, and this is why I'm here.

It sounds more and more like politics: you help the club by being president and politicians serve the country by being elected. Isn't this one of the reasons why the club is being torn apart by all sorts of factions at every election?

No, that’s not true. I don’t see it that way. We run the MTC according to the laws of the country. Whenever there is a debate, it is done in a very democratic and civilised way so that we take the best possible decision in the interest of the MTC. At board meetings, everyone expresses their opinion and of course not everyone agrees about everything. It is a good thing that not everyone has the same opinion otherwise, it would have been very bad for the MTC and our democracy. 

While members are fighting for the presidency, the workers seem to feel they have been let down, particularly when it comes to contributing to their pension. Are you sensitive to their concerns?

It’s more complex than that! There have been some changes in the takeover of the insurance company, and we are reviewing the situation to make sure that our employees get their pension. We are trying to resolve the problem, but it's not as easy as people think. We have been working on that issue for months now; we have had several meetings, not only with the insurance company, but also with our employees. We are just hoping to find a suitable outcome so that we can move forward. 

Apart from members and employees, the horse population has been on the decline. Do you have any plans to encourage people to become racehorse owners?

What happened was that the Mauritius Revenue Authority (MRA) made a claim to all stables and the total of the claim was something like Rs85 million. So owners were reluctant to invest. We have cleared that issue. So basically, this problem has been resolved. We are better off this year; we have imported nearly 130 horses, and maybe we’ll have more during the season itself.

What is the cost of owning a horse at the MTC?

Twenty five thousand rupees per month. This is what a normal horse will cost an owner. Owners tend to get their investment back, and as our stakes money isn’t that high, they try their luck in betting. To avoid this, the MTC has decided to increase the stakes money this season, and we just hope that this will release the pressure on owners. 

By how much are you increasing the stakes?

By 12% this year and if our financial situation gets better, we will surely increase it more.

I understand that you are also thinking of embarking on the construction of a new racecourse. Where are you as far as the tug of war between Terra and Medine is concerned? Which way are you leaning?

We have signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with Terra and together we are looking into the possibility of having a racecourse in Pamplemousses.

Does that means you are intending to close this one?

Eventually and unfortunately, it looks like that!

Why are you moving?

If we want to give our product an international dimension, we have to move from the Champ de Mars. Our present racetrack is now too small. We just can’t develop it any further. We don’t even have a decent restaurant where race-goers can have their lunch.

Furthermore, the Champ de Mars is very small and has a tricky track, and this is why we get so many interferences. Previously, there were five or six horses running. Today, there are 10 or even 11 on Classic Days, and this is very dangerous not only for the jockeys but for the horses too. This is why our racing stewards are severe regarding interferences. I do believe that we need a longer straight. Our straight is about 300m, which is too short. It must be about 500m or 600m so that we can get clear races and all jockeys can ride to expectations.

So what is the arrangement you have with Terra so far?

We are looking into building a modern racecourse with amenities all around, a real sports centre where there is horseracing, of course, but also where you can do or organise other activities, not only sports. We need to have a decent food court and good restaurants, and have sufficient space to allow us to diversify our activities.

This is a huge project. Don't you think the government should get involved?

Yes, of course! We are talking to them about the project, as well as to other stakeholders. We need to have a one-stop shop where there are boxes for the 500 horses and where the training and racing can be done together without transporting the horses. Presently, we have to bring the horses to the Champ de Mars from Floréal. This is done every single day and it costs us a lot of money. It has always been a big problem for us. So if we have this new centre, the horses can stay, train and run there, which means we will not have any transport issues. 

Is there any time frame? 

We have started it already. We have to look at all the implications of the project and see whether it is profitable or not. This is why we are talking about a MoU so that we can look at each aspect of this project. There is no commitment up to now. We are just having a feasibility study.

Apart from the elections, there was also a controversy about the audit report, which many people said was not done by independent auditors and about which you agreed on your website that it was not done by an independent auditor. 

No, we never agreed on that, and I don’t think what you are saying about our website is right. We are completely independent. We only said that the guy who signed the report it is a part owner of a horse. He has a 20% part in a horse.

Doesn’t that qualify him as “not independent”? 

That’s what some members are saying. We have consulted our legal advisers on that issue and they are adamant that there is no conflict as interest as such and I personally think that this is just nonsense.

If you have a stake in a horse, you are involved somehow...

Not in the MTC affairs. Perhaps in the stable. Not here!  

Are you telling me everything is well at the MTC?

No, I haven’t said that and this is why we had that audit. We have started to implement the recommendations. Now we have a financial controller who started in December. We have an internal auditor and a good governance committee for audit and risk. However, it’s a fact that the specialty in our beloved country is rumours. These are faster than the horses themselves!

We have nothing to hide.