This week, Weekly speaks to Roshi Bhadain, former minister of good governance and financial services and now leader of the Reform Party and independent MP. We ask him about the hunger strike, who is responsible for the mess after the collapse of the BAI and his opinion on Pravind Jugnauth’s remedy. We also dig into his recent past and try to get some answers.

The Super Cash Back Gold (SCBG) policyholders took their protest to the streets of Port Louis and sat in front of Government House and continued their hunger strike. What is your reaction to that?

Heartfelt sympathy and a determination to continue to provide my help in any way I can. The victims have legitimate expectations to be paid back their capital. I understand that some of these families depend on this money for health, education and also daily living. Government gave its commitment through cabinet decisions of 24 April 2015, 7 August 2015 and 28 October 2016, which are published on the Prime Minister Office’s (PMO's) website. Pravind Jugnauth cannot plead ignorance all the time. He must know that with great power, comes even greater responsibility!

When you went to visit the hunger strikers, many people found that incongruent as you defended the government’s decision for as long as you were a minister. In hindsight, is there anything you would have done differently?

With hindsight, I should not have accepted to sit next to the then minister of finance in his press conferences after he had closed Bramer Bank. I should have left it to him to shoulder the weight of his decisions, actions and possibly motives against the British American Investment (BAI) group. I made the mistake of looking up to him as an elder, an experienced economist, who had contributed to the 'economic miracle' of our country in the 80s. As a new minister, four months into our mandate, I was candid enough to think that I would learn from him, as I was learning from Anerood Jugnauth (SAJ).

You did not seem to be just learning. You were making promises and apparently being threatened with retribution. Weren’t you the one who needed bodyguards and security detail because of your involvement in the whole saga?

On the night of Thursday 2 April 2015, the then minister of finance and the Central Bank closed down Bramer Bank. Their decision triggered, precipitated and led to the administration of the BAI group. Neither the regulator of the insurance sector, i.e. the Financial Services Commission (FSC), my ministry or even cabinet had been consulted prior to taking that decision. The directors of the BAI then appointed Sattar Hajee Abdoula as their administrator. Due to the nature of the operations of the BAI, it fell upon my ministry to sort out the whole mess on the insurance side. However, every step of the way, decisions were overseen by cabinet, led by the then prime minister and which included the current prime minister. I took my responsibility and explained publicly the facts, figures and relevant 'modus operandi' which were reported to me, to the best of my ability.

Why were you the one who needed 24-hour-security?

All ministers are provided with three to four Very Important Person Security Unit (VIPSU) officers, as decided by the minister of interior. I can only say that it would be a mistake to link this to the BAI specifically.

We heard so much about Ponzi, not Ponzi and Ponzi-like. Do you think, in your heart of hearts, that the BAI had enough assets to pay back at least the capital of the subscribers if the assets hadn’t been sold under pressure and offered to friends?

Paul Bérenger first disclosed that it was a Ponzi in 2013. SAJ and Vishnu Lutchmeenaraidoo said so after the closure of Bramer Bank on 2 April 2015. I confirmed the same afterwards based on the facts, figures and financial reports. NTan Associates reported it was 'Ponzi-like' in 2016 and last week the current prime minister, Pravind Jugnauth, said that the BAI operated a 'Ponzi Scheme'. The problem with all of this is that a Ponzi is not defined in the laws of Mauritius. Nobody in Mauritius can be charged criminally before our courts for 'having committed a Ponzi'.

Let’s concentrate on facts and figures…

The facts clearly show that the consolidated financial statements of the BAI group for the years 2012, 2013 and 2014, signed by its auditor KPMG showed accumulated losses of the BAI group of $300,000,000 (over 11 billion rupees). The audit trail showed that money raised from policyholders and investors was used for activities which were not proper insurance business investment. These included a mixture of political financing, purchase and gifts of expensive cars, private jet travels, excessive salaries and management fees and so on. Political relationships facilitated access to permits, availability of confidential government information and avoidance of regulation. Despite huge losses, the BAI group continued to operate through political relationships.

Did the BAI have enough assets to pay back the policyholders? That is the question!

The key point is that business performance was masked and not subject to the normal discipline of the market and regulators. As a result, assets and businesses purchased with policyholders’ funds were overpriced, underperforming and not efficiently managed. With the best will in the world, no significant increase in value of the main assets could meet the liabilities of the capital and bonuses which exceeded 25 billion rupees.

We will never know as the assets were sold on the cheap and distributed among friends, will we?

The three main assets i.e. the bank, the insurance company and Apollo Bramwell hospital have not yet been sold and have been appropriated by government. There are also the 11% in Mauriplage (Maradiva), Diplomat Gardens, Bramer House, the BAI building in Pope Hennessy Street and so on. The special administrator, appointed by the FSC and the National Property Fund Ltd (NPFL) are responsible for the transfer and sale of these assets. It is up to them to show, in full transparency, if they have obtained the maximum value, in accordance with best practices for such disposals.

Pravind Jugnauth stated in 2010 that 'Mauritius needs 200 Dawood Rawats' after receiving Rs19m from the BAI. You never criticised that while you were in government, did you?

Whoever has obtained money from the BAI at the expense of policyholders will have to do the decent act of reimbursing it all. I only recently found out that Pravind Jugnauth had made that statement about ‘200 Dawood Rawats’ on 21 April 2010, the same day that the Mouvement Socialiste Militant (MSM) received Rs5 m from the BAI. A further sum of Rs5 m was received one week before the general election and Rs5 m two weeks after the general election! And the donations continued. Pravind Jugnauth is now the prime minister of Mauritius; he should know that the Rs19 million received from the BAI represents ‘proceeds of a Ponzi scheme’. Similarly, the MMM received Rs10 million on 4 November 2014, when in alliance with the Labour Party. At the very least, the SCBG policyholders should be refunded these funds amounting to Rs29 million!

In the last parliamentary session, the prime minister said that you had left the country “in a mess” and that that in itself may have been the reason why you left. Were you scared that what is happening now may have happened under your watch?

Cabinet ministers must take collective responsibility for all decisions discussed and taken in cabinet. Unfortunately, Pravind Jugnauth’s words and behaviour are indicative of a person who has bitten off more than he can chew. He is pleading ignorance, fleeing questions, finding excuses and blaming others for his shortcomings and inability to run the country. 

Would you have said that if you had been given the Finance Ministry?

It is not about being a particular minister; it is more about being aligned with the leadership and believing that the government is heading in the right direction. I had already informed SAJ of many things which were wrong and told him that I would leave when he passes on the primeministership. Bérenger stated the same in a press conference in late 2016 and Jack Bizlall also publicly confirmed that I had had a conversation with him to that effect, days before leaving government. I ask everybody this question: Who would want to be minister of finance in a 'kitchen-controlled cabinet’?

Isn’t that what you had been promised until Pravind Jugnauth put an end to your hopes?

No. I never asked for that, nor was I promised anything of the sort. I must also say that the alliance of 2017, which is in office, was no longer the alliance that I had supported and fought for in the general election of December 2014. I could not in all fairness, continue to serve in a government that sadly had lost its way with the deal ‘papa-piti’ and with ‘courtiers’ operating a mafia system. The very essence of being chosen by the people to work for the people had evaporated into thin air.

In the discussions surrounding the supplementary appropriation bill, you pointed out the budget allocated for the surveillance and listening in to telephone conversations of citizens. Were things done differently a few months ago when you were in government or have you just realised it was wrong?

Well, at the risk of repeating myself, as a minister, I am constrained in what I can say, but outside of government, I have the right and duty to speak up. That is part of our democratic process. To question and ask for transparency is absolutely normal. Would I have liked more transparency from the government when I was in it? Of course, but you have to accept cabinet's collective responsibility, including aspects and decisions you don’t like!

You also pointed out that a supplementary budget had to be voted for the prime minister’s Rs19 million car. How much did your car cost when you were in government?

A lot less! It was in line with the prescribed ceiling cost of official cars, like for all other ministers. I asked questions on this supplementary appropriation, which was ‘out’ of budget. But, I must say that the abuse is not just in cars; it is also in the whole grotesque overblown pay and perks system, which preys on the tax paid by citizens and businesses. This simply has got to stop! The Reform Party has inter-alia proposed that every minister, parliamentary private secretary (PPS) and other elected member will only be entitled to an official car or a duty-free facility, but not both.

You did not answer the question about how much your car and the security details cost the state…

As far as I know, the cost of an official duty-free vehicle attributed to a minister should not exceed Rs2.5 million and I had no more than three VIPSUs. The prime minister, deputy prime minister, minister mentor and the vice prime minister, on the other hand, mobilise not less than 10 official vehicles and some 50 VIPSU/police officers on a daily basis. When you consider that there are only some 10 police officers allocated to Plaine des Papayes police station, which serves around 15,000 citizens in that region, it seems absurd.  

All these perks seem to bother you now. There was a substantial increase in ministers’ salaries when you were in cabinet. If you felt bad approving that, we did not hear you complain, did we?

Let me ask firstly, how many ministers have donated one month of their salary to people in need, like I did. In fact, the increase in my case was given to four victims of the SCBG who needed medical treatment. Cabinet deliberations and decisions entail collective responsibility and the majority decides with the approval of the prime minister. If you do not agree as a minister, then you must resign, this is how our system works. Obviously, you cannot resign every five minutes!

Would you have resigned over the Metro Express project? You don’t agree with it, do you?

Yes, I would and I will. If they insist on running the metro on the streets of Quatre-Bornes, instead of having elevated structures as in other countries, I will not hesitate to take necessary action to support the very people who elected me as a member of the national assembly! Cutting down the elevated structures to reduce cost, as planned, is complete nonsense. In my constituency, Belle-Rose/Quatre-Bornes, the government is planning to remove two lanes on St. Jean Road for the metro to run in the middle of the street. How ludicrous is that! Similarly, they are removing the promenade along Victoria Avenue and the market of Belle-Rose. They are also conducting the compulsory acquisition of houses and plots of land, in an inhumane manner. I owe my seat in parliament to the electorate of Belle-Rose/Quatre-Bornes. So, if the government goes ahead with the Metro Express the way it is planned, I will not hesitate one minute to resign as a member of parliament. If this happens, the people of Belle-Rose/Quatre-Bornes will have the opportunity to take the lead and express themselves through their votes. In fact, it might well turn out to be a much needed ‘referendum’ on both the metro project and the papa-piti deal!

For this project, India has given Mauritius a Rs9.9 billion grant. This week, Pravind Jugnauth went to ask for more money to solve the problem of the SCBG policyholders and quell the hunger strike. Are you in favour of his strategy?

No, because we have to find Mauritian solutions to such problems. After nearly 50 years of independence, we should be able to deal with our internal issues as a mature country. In fact, the grant that I negotiated and obtained was Rs12.7 billion for capital projects to boost our economy.

What is the help likely to cost us if Jugnauth does manage to secure it? In what form will it be in your opinion?

The only thing I would say is that there are no free lunches in this world! I cannot comment more on this until I am aware of the details.

What other alternatives did Jugnauth have?

Let him come back and I will tell him. I also cannot understand why Pravind Jugnauth stated that he would apparently pay in ‘one go’, when the victims only wanted assurance that they would be paid over the remaining four years! Government has kept the three largest assets of the ex-BAI group, i.e. Bramer Bank is now MauBank, BAI Insurance is now the National Insurance Company (NIC) and Apollo Bramwell hospital has been rented out to Ciel. How can Pravind Jugnauth as minister of finance decide to keep these assets and then tell victims there is no money to pay them back! The truth is that they have not worked at all on this for the last four months since I left. The only thing they have done is to develop a communication strategy to play the blame game, which has backfired on them. And the result is they got their knickers in a twist and panicked when the victims went on hunger strike!

As far as your political ambitions are concerned, some people say they like the ideas you are professing but, considering your recent past, they do not like what you stand for. What do you say to them?

I stand as a tall, dark and handsome young man. Compare that with the alternative!   

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