This week, Weekly speaks to opposition MP Aadil Ameer Meea of the Mouvement Militant Mauricien. He doesn’t mince his words when he gives his take on the possible reason behind the mini reshuffle, the real motivation behind Heritage City and the state of the economy.

“The minister of finance has someone sitting on the Monetary Policy Committee, so he knows exactly what the euro or the rupee rate would be and whether it will increase or decrease. So, that is privileged information.”

“It’s obvious that all this information about Lutchmeenaraidoo is coming from the government’s side. People with privileged information, with inside information.”

“The prime minister hasn’t said, up to now, what Lutchmeenaraidoo has done to be removed from the post of minister of finance.”

“Don’t forget that we are borrowing billions just to erect buildings. It’s like the Pharaohs building the pyramids, the statue of Tutankhamun or Cleopatra. They did it for the glory of these persons.”

“The moment they issue preference shares in Heritage City, this will go on public debt.”

“It is shocking how this government has mismanaged the whole British American Investment (BAI) saga and the value the assets had two years ago have evaporated.”

I know you are not a doctor but what is your evaluation of Vishnu Lutchmeenaraidoo’s health right now?

I wish him a prompt recovery because there are many questions he has to answer. We are all shocked to learn that the previous minister of finance took a loan from the State Bank at a preferential interest rate and preferential terms.

So, what is preferential about 1.5% in euro?

Normally, the interest rate in euros or dollars, is 2 to 3%, and you can’t repay it after one or two years. A loan is paid monthly.For Mr. Lutchmeenaraidoo, the loan will be repaid in two years’ time. Worse, it hasn’t been registered.

What difference does that make? Lutchmeenaraidoo did give his house and land as guarantee.

But, the thing is is that this house has not been registered in favour of the bank. What I mean is, Mr. Lutchmeenaraidoo could have sold his house and the bank would not have been made aware of what he did, and would have had no guarantee.

That’s hypothetical. You would trust that the minister of finance would not do anything of that nature.

What will happen if he dies? I’m not wishing it upon him at all but in business, when you lend money, you must make sure everything is done in such a way that the money entrusted to you as a bank is safe. For me, what is also serious is that the State Bank forms part of the companies that fall under the aegis of the Ministry of Finance. So, my question is, does a minister have the right to do business with the very bank which falls under his responsibility?

Is a minister not allowed to invest money where he wants to while he is a minister? I mean, that’s a bit of a death sentence, isn’t it?

Not when you borrow this sum from a bank that falls under your aegis. Besides, the minister of finance has someone sitting on the Monetary Policy Committee, so he knows exactly what the euro or the rupee rate would be and whether it will increase or decrease. So, that is privileged information. It isn’t his role to speculate on gold. 

Why not?

Because he could have had inside information on the exchange rate of the rupee in relation to the euro. Meaning, if you borrow €1 million today, maybe in two months or one year, the same euro would have gone down and you will reimburse only part of what you borrowed This is, for me, privileged information. They came here supposedly to work for the country. But what did Mr. Lutchmeenaraidoo do? He worked for himself. By taking a loan, by speculating on gold, he didn’t work for the country but for himself. So, they came here, created the ministry of good governance etc, but in real terms, they are not doing any good governance. They are doing exactly the contrary of what should have been good governance in terms of hiring, nominations and everything else.

The prime minister’s reaction to this scandal is the mini reshuffle. Has that solved the problem?

It’s really funny how the prime minister has dealt with it but at the same time, it’s serious. He hasn’t said, up to now, what Lutchmeenaraidoo has done to be removed from the post of minister of finance.

He said he’s over-worked.

That’s what the prime minister said. Lutchmeenaraidoo said the prime minister used his powers to remove him. So, what we have today is a government where when a minister has done something wrong, and instead of being sacked, he is moved to another ministry.

But, isn’t it up to a court of law to decide whether he has done something wrong or not before he is sanctioned?

On the basis of what we have seen, there is enough evidence for a prime minister to act. Previous prime ministers have done it. They didn’t necessarily have to wait for a court of law to take action. 

What cases are you thinking about?

There was the case for Former Minister of Social Security Vishnu Bundhun who had to resign. There was also Former Minister of Arts and Culture Mukeshwar Chooneewho was also made to resign when there were allegations of corruption. He didn’t wait to go to court.

Why do you think Lutchmeenaraidoo is being kept on board then?

For only one reason and that is just to prevent a by-election.

Don’t tell me you think you have a chance of winning a by-election in number 7 if there was one tomorrow.

It is the electorate who decides. Of course we do believe in it because people were taken for a ride during the last electoral campaign and today, after more than a year, we have seen the limits of this government. I am personally extremely worried about the economy. The economy is at a standstill here while things are developing very fast worldwide. Today, for me, the last thing that you should do is to put a person who is 86 years old as minister of finance. He is already prime minister, minister of Rodrigues, MBC, interior, and now, he is minister of finance as well. If Lutchmeenaraidoo could not manage it, how will the prime minister do it?

He must be able to do it if he took on the responsibility. Why would he take it otherwise?

Well, this is wishful thinking but the reality we know is totally different. It’s the wrong signal to send to local investors and international investors.

Wouldn’t international investors be reassured that the prime minister himself is in charge of the exchequer?

You know, the job of the finance minister is not an easy one. You have so many responsibilities, local and international, you have to be in charge of the economic orientation of the country, you have to meet the public and the private sector, you must travel abroad, you must attend conferences, you must reply to parliament and for that, I am not sending a warning but I am just hoping that the prime minister will play his democratic role in parliament when we put questions about finance to him because I can tell you, I’ve myself have put so many questions to the prime minister. We did not get the answers.

What answers didn’t you get?

I’ll give you an example. In my constituency, there is a big problem with Canal Anglais. Each time there is heavy rain, there are leakages in the wall. I’ve raised this issue three times in parliament. Through parliamentary questions (PQs) and through adjournment. You know what the prime minister told me the last time? That we should change the name from ‘Canal Anglais’ to ‘Canal Français’. And you know what happened during the last heavy rainfall? People’s houses were flooded. And he is minister in charge of the National Development Unit. Now he adds even more responsibilities to all that! This is extremely dangerous for the country and the economy.

Aren’t you relieved that he took the MBC from Roshi Bhadain?

Let’s wait and see. My feeling is that it could be even worse. 

Worse than under Bhadain?

Well, it will be difficult but not impossible.

Why would it be worse?

As I told you, you need someone to drive things and I am sorry to say the prime minister is not the driver that we need now. He’s done his time.

Lutchmeenaraidoo claims there is a systematic campaign against him. What do you think about that?

It’s obvious that all this information is coming from the government’s side. People with privileged information, with inside information. We all know who is doing that.

Who?

The one who knows everything and says he works 26 hours a day.

So what do you think is going to happen?

The match will continue and this is very bad for the country and the economy.

You seem to be very harsh on a government that has only been here for 15 months. You can’t expect them to boost the economy in 15 months, do you?

But they said it themselves! The previous finance minister said that in 2017, there will be full employment. Minister Showkutally Soodhun said that in 2017, there will be two jobs for one person. They promised a miracle. Do you see a miracle anywhere? What I personally see is an economic catastrophe.

They still have three and a half years to go, at least?

But they should have at least set the foundation for things to happen.

Haven’t they with the smart cities?

(He bursts into laughter) Smart cities? Oh that’s a big bluff. Ten or 12 smart cities? For a population of 1.2 million. Please don’t make me laugh!

Why do you sound so defeatist? Maybe smart cities will be a success.

First, we don’t have the means and secondly, there is no demand. We have a surplus of residential properties, villas, houses, apartments and whatnot. There are thousands of houses on sale and for years they have not been sold. People don’t have this kind of money. And the government wants to build 1,000 residential properties in Heritage City, 2,000 in Yihai Domaine les Pailles. Who will buy these? And in Port Louis, which will be emptied of its offices, these will be converted into 8,000 residential properties. Can you tell me where these 8,000 families will come from? It’s a total joke and my fear is that all will end up in a total mess. And Heritage City, it’s a big blunder.

Why?

It’s a blunder because it’s not a necessity for this country.

Isn’t development a necessity?

(Laughs) Development? If you want development you must have sustainable development. This is just a property development.

Won’t it create employment all the same?

It won’t create sustainable employment. I remember during the last electoral campaign what l’Alliance Lepep said. They said the light rail transit system (LRTS) was too expensive, that we don’t have the means for it. It would have cost Rs24 billion. Fifteen months ago, it was too expensive. So, today, we don’t have the means for an LRTS, but we have the means for Heritage City? Ask any Mauritian if they’d rather have the LRTS or Heritage City and you will see which one they think is best for the people of Mauritius. The LRTS will raise Mauritius to the level of countries like Singapore, Malaysia and Dubai. You’ve seen what has happened there. The LRTS has resolved so many congestion problems there. Heritage City will benefit only some ministers and will create so many economic and social problems in Port Louis.

What social problems and why in Port Louis?

It’s very simple. In Port Louis today, there are 150,000 inhabitants. It’s a small town but it’s the most densely populated town in Mauritius. Many who can’t find a job in the private or the public sector make a living in Port Louis. It is the same worldwide. Why do people go to London, Paris or New Delhi? I can give you so many examples. Similarly, people have moved to Port Louis to earn a living there. I’m not talking only about hawkers but also people selling food, stores and commerce, taxis, etc. When you take away parliament, the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO), the State Law Office, all the major ministries, the influx of people entering Port Louis will reduce considerably. When this happens, social problems will emerge.

You can’t tell me that Heritage City is bad because Port Louis will be empty and there will be no activity there. That shouldn’t be a reason if Heritage City is a good project.

Do you know what pains me? Port Louis is a historical city. The parliament is 200 years old. Our treasury building, supreme court, theatre, everything are ancient buildings. In other countries, they do everything to preserve their ancient buildings. In Mauritius, what do we do? We move out of Port Louis. Also, in which country do you have parliament and the PMO outside the capital? If we had 100 million inhabitants, it might have been a necessity to create a new city. Don’t forget that we are borrowing billions just to erect buildings. It’s like the Pharaohs building the pyramids, the statue of Tutankhamun or Cleopatra. They did it for the glory of these persons. This is exactly what this government is doing. Bhadain said: “I’m giving Heritage City as a heritage to Sir Anerood Jugnauth’. This is where we are.

He’s not going to take it with him when he goes. It’s going to stay for the country.

What I mean is that their state of mind, their vision, is to leave a heritage which will cost us years to reimburse the loan. Bhadain is not playing the card of good governance and transparency in this project.

What I understood is that this is not a loan but preference shares…

Preference shares are something you have to reimburse. In principle, it’s not a loan but practically it is the same thing. In his press conference last time, Bhadain said that in 15 years, the government will become the owner of the place. But to start with, figures keep changing and at first, the financing was from Dubai, then it became Saudi Arabia. Now, we have local banks and others involved. The last thing he said was that Heritage City would be financed by preference shares. That would cost a minimum of one billion rupees per year. Where will we get this money from? He said the company will sell residential property, shopping malls etc. So, the company itself must be extremely profitable to pay these preference shares. What has he hidden? He said the interest rate would be only 6% but what about the capital? When you take a loan, you pay the interest but you also pay back the capital. In this case, he omitted to say how we will pay the capital element. He said that we will not use public funds but he didn’t give us a guarantee.

What he also said was that the houses they will build for the civil servants or whoever is going to buy them, are only going to be built once they have been sold. So, it won’t cost the government anything.

So what will happen to the project? He is counting on the profit that he will make after selling those houses to finance the loan. So if they are not sold, where will the money come from? Secondly, do you know of any civil servant who will buy a house costing Rs6 million to Rs12 million? Don’t all the civil servants of the six ministries have houses already?

They can sell them and go and live next to the musical fountain...

How? Don't they have a loan? What will happen to the bubble in the real estate sector when the market is flooded with all this supply and when demand does not follow? This bubble will explode.

But then again, is the opposition going to sit there and say ‘no’ to every project that the government comes up with?

If it was a project that the country would have gained from, a sustainable project that was to the advantage of Mauritius like the LRTS, the blue economy, our water supply, our sea resources, we would have happily said we are for it. But we are patriots; we love our country. This is a dream project and a gift for Anerood Jugnauth who will have a new office and next to him, there will be a Bollywood theme park. We don't want to be part of this.

What are you going to do once the parliament resumes? I must say, by the way, that you must be very lucky because you criticised the previous government for the long rest they had by closing parliament and now parliament has been closed for even longer.

It was a forced rest and I think seriously that whatever government there has been in the past, a parliament can't be closed for three to four months. We can't have a democracy where parliament is closed for this long. But they have a majority in parliament. They do whatever they like. People have given them this majority and have been taken for a ride. Now people are really fed up of this government and they are really scared and worried about where it is taking this country.

Where it is taking this country?

On the wrong path.

What makes you say that? Everything is working and there is nothing going wrong, nobody is killing anybody, no one is committing suicide, what is the path you are talking about?

I don't know where you have been but law and order has badly deteriorated, crime has increased, accidents have increased. And even suicide is on the increase! And what did Rambo say? On 12 March when he addressed the nation, he threatened Lutchmeenaraidoo and said, if people 'fer santaz’ (blackmail me), I will act'. This is not a speech for 12 March. You say this in a meeting in La Caverne. When you address the people on 12 March, you present your best wishes and give them a positive view of the future, not threaten them.

How did you know he was referring to Lutchmeenaraidoo?

Who was he threatening then?

I don't know. What are your views of the SICOM polemic?

It is a disguised way of using public funds to pay the Supercash Back Gold policyholders. Who made the evaluation? BDO. Let me put it to you this way: is BDO independent enough to do a valuation? Being administrators, they would naturally want to get a very high price for the National Insurance Company (NIC) company. So how can we base ourselves on their evaluation? Even SWAN and Mauritian Eagle are worth Rs3.8 million. Now for a company like NIC, it’s an enormous amount. What they actually did is a forecast. You can put whatever figure you want in a forecast. What is the net assets and the value? The value is zero. The value is put on the forecast. And they want SICOM and other parastatals to put money there to raise Rs5.8 billion to pay the policyholders. It is shocking how this government has mismanaged the whole British American Investment (BAI) saga and the value the assets had two years ago have evaporated: Britam, Iframac, Apollo Bramwell.

Aren’t they keeping their promise of not using public funds, though?

How? Do you know how much the Bank of Mauritius has lent Maubank? Rs4 billion! There’s a total opacity in the whole affair. Who is paying the current bill in Apollo Bramwell or example? It needs 30-40 million a month to keep it running. Who is footing the bill? Do you see Apollo Bramwell generating Rs1m a day? They are using public funds! We have not heard Bhadain recently on the debenture issue? Rs15billion to be subscribed. He has delayed that but we are waiting for July to see what happens. And this is not all, the moment they issue preference shares in Heritage City, this will go on public debt. Imagine what that will be?

What is the opposition going to do now about all this? Same thing: keep quiet?

No, we don't keep quiet. We do our job. We ask questions in parliament, we give interviews, we have our press conferences. The MMM has a structure. We have our politburo and central committee but we also have a regional where we meet people in each constituency to make them aware about what is happening in our country. We will continue to do that. We will expose the Heritage City blunder and we will watch the Lutchmeenaraidoo saga.

What will you watch? The guy has had a relapse!

It's not yet over. Now we have heard that the Independent Commission Against Corruption(ICAC) is investigating.

So now you believe that the ICAC is going to do an independent job?

I did not say that. Who talked about independence? We will follow the game.

What will this lead to?

To someone’s mask falling gradually and he will pay dearly for that. And I am not talking about Lutchmeenaraidoo!

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