This week, Weekly sits down with Sanjit Teelock, former deputy speaker. Teelock was in parliament between 1991 and 1995 and deputy speaker in 1995 and formed part of a committee in charge of updating the standing orders.  He sheds light on the leader of the opposition’s invitation to Roshi Bhadain, former minister of good governance, to join him on the front bench and share question time with him. He also gives his uncompromising views on the political situation as a whole.

When Xavier-Luc Duval (XLD) invited Roshi Bhadain to join him on the front bench of the opposition, Paul Bérenger’s reaction was, “You can’t even do that because it is the speaker who decides!” as a former deputy speaker, can you tell us who exactly decides the seating arrangement of the MPs?
According to the standing orders, it is the speaker who has the final say. There is no question about that. It is clearly stipulated in section 6 of the standing orders.

When you say, ‘final say’, what happens in practice?
In practice, when the government decides its front bench and the seating arrangements for its ministers, private parliamentary secretaries and backbenchers, the proposed seating arrangement is submitted to the speaker and it is the speaker who sees if it is possible or not. The speaker does not normally impose her choice nor does she suggest change. She only makes sure the arrangement works. The same thing applies to the opposition. So, Bérenger was right when he said it’s the speaker who decides on the seating arrangement but he was wrong when he said that XLD can’t say who he wants seated next to him on the front bench. If XLD wants to have Bhadain next to him, there is no reason for the speaker to say no. If she does, XLD could take it to court and I’d like to see the speaker try to justify that. 

Considering the number of parties in the oppostion now and the independent MPs, the seating arrangement is likely to be rather complicated, isn’t it?
Yes, at the moment, there are multiple parties, with the MMM, the Labour Party, the Mouvement Patriotique, the independent MPs and Bhadain’s new party. So the speaker will have to step in. 
From what I gather, because the Parti Mauricien Social Démocrate (PMSD) has about 10 MPs, plus Bhadain, they will take at least the centre row where Bérenger used to sit. What I assume Bérenger would do is to sit on Duval’s right next to the speaker. I can’t see him sitting behind the PMSD. 

The protocol seems to shift according to the government in place. Why is that?
Yes, we have a different situation to the UK.  In the House of Commons, the government of the day always sits to the right of the speaker and the opposition to the left. We have stopped following that tradition since the 60-0 of 1982. Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam used to sit on the right of the speaker. Jugnauth and Bérenger, on the other hand, sat on the left. That has not changed: whenever Labour wins, Navin Ramgoolam goes back to the place where his father used to sit. And whenever Jugnauth or Bérenger wins, they go and sit where they are used to sitting. 

Now that the seating arrangement is clear in the sense that Duval can invite Bhadain to sit on the front bench, what about the former’s offer to share the Private Notice Question (PNQ) with the latter? How can they share one question that is the prerogative of the leader of the opposition alone?
They cannot. It’s totally out of order. The standing orders permit 30 minutes for the PNQ. Duval can’t say, “I am not going to ask the question; Bhadain is!” 

What about the supplementary questions?
That is up to the speaker. The usual practice in the House of Commons is whoever catches my eye. So, whether the speaker chooses to appear to be blind or not is up to her but the PMSD can’t force her to give Bhadain priority. 

So, what is XLD offering Bhadain then?
Nothing. 

Just a seat next to him?
Which is not bad. Being the only member of his party, he would have been pushed to a corner in the back otherwise. 

And what does XLD get out of that act of ‘kindness’?
My reading is that Duval is going for gold. He wants to be prime minister and he is keeping all his options open. If Bhadain’s party takes off, Xavier might be the locomotive in a deal and this reinforces his position in No 18 (Belle Rose/Quatre Bornes) at the bare minimum. In nutshell, I think Xavier is trying to boost up his potential future partner. 

Isn’t Duval taking a risk? What if Bhadain used the comfy seat to boost his own image and went another way?
Well, Bhadain’s options are very limited. He is not going back to the MSM, I doubt that the MMM will touch him with a barge pole – he has too many casseroles – and the Labour Party doesn’t really need him. The only one who might need him is Xavier in a plan B, if plan A doesn’t work out. 

What is plan A?
Plan A would be if he were able to convince the Labour Party to offer him a half-term prime ministership, which I find very difficult, but after what happened in 2014, anything could happen.

Bhadain has threatened to spill the beans on the Mouvement Socialiste Militant (MSM) and trigger a general election in 2018. An empty threat according to you?
I can think of only two events that could trigger an election. The first one is what happens in the MedPoint case, which we will find out in about a month’s time. If the DPP does get the authorisation to go to the Privy Council, I don’t think the Privy Council will take more than a year to give its verdict. If the decision of the Supreme Court is reversed, then I think that will trigger an election because it will be untenable for Pravind Jugnauth. I don’t think Pravind will step down and let somebody else take his place in the MSM. He will ask for an election. The second thing is if something happens like Raj Dayal deciding to resign in Flacq or the new minister of good governance, Sudhir Sesungkur, gets convicted in the Mazars’ case and has to resign. Or, not that we wish any fatality, somebody dies. 

Are you happy with the cabinet arrangement with the son as prime minister and the father as minister mentor? 
On the procedure, there is nothing to be said about it because it is clear that the leader of the biggest party, which is Pravind, becomes the prime minister. The legal contestation that is going on is ridiculous. However, there were a series of beaches of protocol and convention like the way the father said he was going to resign and that Pravind would become prime minister and the swearing-in ceremony before getting the resignation…

Do you find anything wrong with the president sending out invitations even before the prime minister had resigned?
This, once again, is a breach of protocol. There was no rush to do it so quickly.  This is the very first time since the republic has been made that we have a president and a vice-president who have never occupied any function in government. The problem is that they don’t know what to do. There is no other way of saying it. If I had been the president, I would have said that we have do things in the right order. But she doesn’t know what the right order is. It’s all very well to say that she is a woman president and a scientist, but now we’re going to see the consequences of all of that. That is the problem when you don’t put the right person in the right place! And it’s not as if there weren’t other women with a long experience that could have occupied that post and done justice to it. Locally, there will be consequences. And, God help us if there is a real constitutional crisis.

What are exactly your fears?
You remember that with the Prevention of Terrorism Act, both Cassam Uteem and Angidi Chettiar resigned. If this Prosecution Commission bill had reached the Réduit, what would the president have done?

What do you think she would have done?
I think that she would have signed. She has no reason to be on the wrong side of the government. 

Do you think we will get to that point?
The Prosecution Commission bill is very dangerous. It could change the game as far as the judiciary is concerned. And it was very carefully crafted. For example, the bill says that the three members of the commission would be decided by the Judicial and Legal Services Commission (JLSC). If the JLSC did not appoint the members within a month, then it would be the president, the prime minister and the leader of the opposition. The JLSC would have to work within the law, whereas the triumvirate could recruit from outside of Mauritius.

What do they gain by appointing someone from abroad?
They appoint somebody, say, from St. Kitts and Nevis, whom they pay and is beholden to them. The director of public prosecutions (DPP) is not beholden to anyone in this triumvirate. But any judge appointed by anyone of those three would be. But the interesting thing was that this little clause is only for them and not for the JLSC. The JLSC has to act within the Mauritian law.

Why don't they just appoint somebody here like a retired judge who listens to them and does what they want him to do? 
They might get one of the three, two maybe but they are unlikely to get three former judges to work on such a commission. Nobody with some sense and dignity would accept. 

Do you think this bill will still come back on the table when parliament resumes?
No. The MSM has no hope of getting the three quarters anymore. There is a better chance of them losing the majority they have rather than getting the three quarters. 

Are you happy with the minister mentor being in charge of law and order?
No! I think Anerood should have taken the title and left the front bench. It does not look nice that when Pravind Jugnauth goes overseas and Ivan Collendavelloo goes too, the former prime minister becomes prime minister again! It looks a bit demeaning and it does look like he is a babysitter! Pravind Jugnauth is a very diminished prime minister as he is not handling the police. This has never happened. 

Talking about dignity, don't you think if Anerood Jugnauth had dignity, he would have left the parliament?
Yes, the problem is if he leaves parliament, they will have to have a by-election. 

Isn’t it more demeaning then that they are refusing to face the electorate through all the tricks in the book?
Politically, it's probably better to be demeaned than to go and get heavily defeated in a by-election, which could lead to a downfall of the government. There is no question that maintaining Anerood Jugnauth in parliament is to avoid a by-election. You know when there was the first proposal of a power sharing in 2000 between Jugnauth and Bérenger, nobody believed that Jugnauth was actually going to hand over to Bérenger. Now when that happened, I think that has changed the mindset of the Mauritian electorate for all future elections where there is a power sharing agreement. So in 2005, for the first time, the Labour Party alone beat the alliance of the MMM and the MSM together because the people were not going to buy this power sharing thing anymore. When it came to 2014, and once again, we had Navin Ramgoolam as the president and Bérenger as the prime minister, and on the other side, Anerood as the prime minister and that was it, the side with one prime minister won a large majority. If they had said, after two years, there would be a handover to Pravind Jugnauth, I don’t think they would have won such a big majority. I also think that although Bérenger likes to put all the blame on Ramgoolam for the defeat in 2014, it is clear that the real cause of the defeat in 2014 was presenting Bérenger as prime minister. It did not work in 1983, it did not work in 2005, it did not work in 2010 and it did not work in 2014. I mean, it can’t get clearer than that. 

What is going to happen from now on?
I think we are in for a period of political uncertainty. The government has a majority whether we like it or not so you can’t blame them for wanting to hang on to power. The opposition is not clear. It will become clearer as months and years go ahead. I still think that the main thing that could upset the apple cart is the MedPoint case or a resignation from parliament. 

No political spilling the beans by Bhadain or anything is likely to result in any major change?
Bhadain is not the Harish Boodhoo of the 80s. He is an unstable politician.

Don’t you think he will pull a lot of youth to his party?
I feel sorry for the youth if he does. This is not the role model that the youth want. 

What alliances are likely to be struck behind our backs?
Let’s see the options. The MMM/MSM? Pravind is already prime minister. He is not going to step down to allow Bérenger to be the prime minister. Will Bérenger accept to go as president with executive powers? I think that the MSM will be very worried about that because they saw what happened with Labour when they wanted a deal of this nature. Sharing of the prime ministership? I don’t see that happening.  The Labour Party might go alone because I can’t see them making a deal with XLD. Unless Ramgoolam steps down. 

What happens if he steps down and hands over to Arvind Boolell?
Boolell is definitely the designated heir but if he takes over before the next election, he will pump up the MSM tremendously. We’ve been through this. Anil Bachoo and I did this when we were in the Labour Party 32 years ago with Satcam Boolell. No matter how much good work we did, we got hammered by the MSM in the municipal elections. If there is anything likely to give serum to the MSM, it is definitely Navin Ramgoolam leaving the Labour Party leadership. In my mind, the way for the Labour Party to change its leader, if they are fortunate enough to win the next election, is for Ramgoolam to hand over after the election. He does not have to announce it.

Do you mean he cuts the same deal we are condemning today?
It’s normal parliamentary practice. What has created a big mess this time is that the handing over involved father and son. This is why we are being mocked on the international scene. If, for example, Jugnauth had handed over to Nando Bodha, would there have been this outcry? No one would have seen anything underhand in that!

What does your crystal ball tell you about the prime minister?
All crystal balls are very foggy at this juncture. Give me a couple of months and ask me again!