A hearing in the petition lodged by Former Minister of Commerce Cader Sayed-Hossen in constituency no 15 is imminent. We talk to the former minister and petitioner about a number of issues surrounding the petition, the different scenarios and their implications as well as electronic voting. We also seek a reaction to Ivan Collendavelloo’s explanation to the missing votes.

After a recount in number 19 (Stanley/Rose Hill), we are now heading for La caverne/Phoenix. Not one minute too soon, is it?
Exactly! We had 21 days by law to lodge our petitions but it has been over two years since. All sorts of delaying tactics have been used to delay the hearing of our cases. I suppose the court had no choice but to accept these tactics. Of course, Covid didn’t help either.

Now that the case is about to be heard, there might be more delays as the electoral commissioner is refusing to testify…
Yes, my lawyers have asked for the electoral commissioner and the returning officer to be present in court for ‘personal answers’. Their lawyers have objected so we are waiting for the judges to rule.

Let’s just remind our readers that what you are asking for is a simple recount of your ballot papers and those of Gilbert Bablee’s – a similar situation to the one we have just witnessed between Jenny Adibero and Ivan Collendavelloo…
Yes.

And in the no 19 case, there was no change and the candidate who had been elected got elected again. So what are you trying to achieve through yet another recount?
Talking about no 19, the candidate may have won again but the recount unveiled some very strange things. When the ballot boxes were re-opened, 73 ballot papers were missing. Now if you say that the ballot boxes had been sealed and locked, with three locks whose keys are kept by the commander of the Special Mobile Force, the electoral commissioner and the chairman of the Electoral Supervisory Commission, how did these papers go missing?

There is no proof that they vanished, is there?
So where are they? What conclusion can we draw if 73 ballot papers are missing?

According to Candidate Ivan Collendavelloo, those 73 papers were never there in the first place…
Then the returning officer should be called to answer for that because according to the figures submitted after the election, we are 73 ballot short. Then another ballot from constituency no 1 found its way to no 19. These are unexplainable anomalies.

They don’t necessary amount to electoral fraud, do they?
Well, they at least point to a huge amateurism in the conduct of elections and the electoral process.

So you are no longer contesting the election of the grounds of fraud. You are now talking about amateurism...
As far as my election in no 15 is concerned, we have evidence from witnesses that there have been anomalies in the counting process.

Deliberate anomalies?
Well, one anomaly can be a mistake. But when it repeats itself, what conclusion can you draw? Also, why was Patrick Assirvaden and myself brutally thrown out of the computer room when we went there at about 6 p.m.?

What business did you have going into the computer rooms?
It’s not anyone’s business to know what business I have going anywhere in the school during elections and during counting. There is no space which is out of bounds for us. If there is something happening in the computer room in as far as the computation of figures is concerned, we are allowed to see and ask questions. So I reiterate the question: why were we thrown out? There were so many such anomalies and it is on the basis of these anomalies that we are asking for a recount in order to avoid what happened during counting day. These are reasons for us to believe that there has been cheating and fraud.

But you are not challenging the anomalies. All you want is a recount that may allow you to go and sit in the National Assembly, don’t you?
I don’t agree that it is just a matter of recounting to go and sit in the National Assembly. It is a matter of recounting to know exactly what the will of the people of Mauritius was on that day. Dr Ramgoolam has asked for a recount in his constituency as Did Suren Dayal and others. It’s not just for the pleasure of sitting in the National Assembly. And whether we like it or not, elections are about sitting in parliament and when you sit in parliament, if you have the majority to form a government, you run the country the way you think best for the people of this country. It is also and mainly a question of defending the principles of a democratic state. If we are a democratic state and elections are supposed to be free and fair, then that principle has been violated on Election Day and even afterwards on Counting Day.

“Electronic voting would be Institutionalised fraud. There is not a single doubt in my mind that there would be a big risk that they would programme and rig everything without leaving a single trace.''

But you have no proof, do you?
We can’t be in all the 30 counting rooms at the same time.

What were your agents doing?
They were pointing out one anomaly after another.

And I suppose all this was documented, was it?
No, unfortunately.

So?
You must understand the psyche of people on Election Day and Counting Day for that matter. You don’t have time to even think let alone document things. For our supporters who were not allowed to vote, I was told ‘why didn’t you take the names and coordinates of all of them?’ But who had time on that day? And then who knew that the few dozen who told us their names were not on the register later became hundreds and thousands? In my constituency, a whole family of 12 electors was deprived of its right to vote for absolutely no reason, though they had registered four months before! So don’t tell me all these anomalies count for nothing.

But you are not challenging these anomalies, are you?
No my petition is simple. I am only challenging the results of the election in my constituency, as computed on Counting Day by the officers who were there, under the direction of the retuning officer who was there.

What happens if the recount at your constituency yields the same results as in the case of Adibero? You go over all this process and you find out that you had lost any way? Wouldn’t that be embarrassing?
It’s as if you were asking me: wouldn’t it be embarrassing for the Labour Party to go through all this trouble if there is a chance that the results are confirmed?

That too…
It’s not embarrassing at all. On the contrary, as responsible politicians, it is our duty, not only vis-à-vis our supporters but also vis-àvis the 35% of electors who trusted us with their vote to maintain the respect of the principles of democracy for which we stand. In the case of Adebiro, I will not comment on what I think happened before the recount, but the recount itself unravelled some strange things like the disappearance of 73 votes!

“It’s not anyone’s business to know what business I have going anywhere in the school during elections and during counting. There is no space which is out of bounds for us.”
 

Ivan Collendavelloo said it was an illusion as, sometimes, he thinks he has Rs12,000 in his pocket and he finds out he in fact has only Rs8,000.
Then he should consult a psychiatrist! I think he is showing disrespect for the people. If he thinks he has Rs12,000 and he has only Rs 8,000 in reality, it’s very serious!

Why, does this never happen to you?
No! To begin with, I am not rich enough to walk around with Rs12,000 in my pocket. But to come back to your question, I can’t anticipate what the result of a recount will be if it is granted but we are serious people. There are many petitions lodged by three parties. It is drawing on and mobilising tremendous resources. We are not in the habit of joking. We are not spending time and energy for nothing. We sincerely believe that there may have been cheating and fraud. So we are addressing the judicial system to look for redress, using the means available to us. Now from there, what happens happens.

If the petitions heard so far is anything to go by, the odds seem to be stacked against you. Ezra Jhuboo could not prove that the computer rooms had anything to do with the results and Adibero could not prove that she deserves Collendavelloo’s seat. Wasn’t that a waste of time?
The short answer is: not at all. The longer answer: fighting for a principle we profoundly believe in can never be a waste of time. We are not fighting just to win a seat or two in parliament. We are fighting for the principle of free and fair elections. That means all the processes involved in the elections and on Counting Day have to be done properly to reflect the wish of the people of this country. If we win, fine. But even if we don’t, we will have made a statement.

Many people have raised the issue that many Bangladeshi and Indian workers were bussed in at the last minute to vote and that their vote may have been bought. Shouldn’t you and your government have stopped this business of foreigners who are here only for two or three years participating in such an important democratic process?
That’s a tricky question because there is an international tradition in the Commonwealth to allow foreigners who have lived in the country for a number of years to vote.

But how does that make sense in a small country like ours? There are only about 900,000 voters and the margin between two candidates is at times very small (in your case it’s only 49!). How can foreigners transiting in our country be allowed to impact that difference with their vote?
I would agree with you. This is something we should have looked at. We didn’t. But I must say, before 2015, we never believed that political vendetta was part of the Mauritian culture. We had never seen this before. When the MMM and the PSM came to power in 1982, it was a landslide victory for them. But there was no political vendetta. Paul Bérenger had been imprisoned a number of times on charges which existed in our laws at the time, strikes were broken on several occasions, sometimes for reasons which went beyond trade union principles so when Paul Bérenger won, it was a quasi-revolutionary change. Still, there was never any political vendetta!

So what brought this new culture to this country?
I think it has to do with the mentality of the Jugnauths! When they won the election in 2014, they started a huge vendetta against so many people soon after. Dr Ramgoolam may have been to court about 150 times, to the CCID and the Line Barracks about 60 times. This was shockingly new! And all the cases were struck out in court. In the same way, we never thought there would be suspicion of fraud in elections. There had never been fraud in an election before. A few dead people may have voted here and there in the past but that was minor.

With the talk about electoral fraud, the government might suggest electronic voting. How do you react to that?
That would be institutionalised fraud. There is not a single doubt in my mind that there would be a big risk that they would programme and rig everything without leaving a single trace.

What would you do if they passed such a law?
We would protest and alert international organisations. We would also invite foreign observers.

But there were foreign observers present at the last election. What good did they do?
Nothing. They looked around and said everything was fine. It is a sho

In what state of mind are you in as you wait for the court’s decision?
There was a huge delay in the hearing. I am not criticising the courts. What I am saying is that we are asking for a simple recount. We are not challenging the elections. We are saying: ‘Open the ballot boxes and recount’. That has taken two years. In a democratic system, this is unacceptable. There should be a constitutional court or an electoral court that can look at such issues within a time limit of, say, three to six months. So I don’t know how I feel as it’s not in my hands. All I can do is wait, wait and wait a little more.