I do not have any rigid view on quotas for women because I think the evidence points in both directions. You can’t make a change without some kind of direct intervention but I believe meritocracy is very important as well. My parents always told me that you have got to work hard and show it. There is no free lunch.

British High Commissioner Charlotte Pierre hasn’t been much in the press since she was posted in Mauritius, which happens to be her country of birth. We managed to get hold of her to discuss various issues concerning her job as well as her personal views on other matters…

We don’t hear you much in the press. Now that you are talking to us, can you tell us what goodies you have in store for us?

Our big priority sectors in Mauritius are trade, climate change, financial services…After the Financial Action Task Force grey listing, we’ve had a big focus on helping Mauritius come off of it. This was a big part of our work and it continues because the UK sees Mauritius as an important international and regional financial centre. Africa is a priority region for us, so we see Mauritius and its ambitions as being a regional hub in financial services, education and tourism. This aligns pretty nicely with what we want to do regionally.

Has the interest increased with Brexit?

I think, certainly on leaving the European Union, the UK had to redefine itself, absolutely. We worked really hard to present, as the often used phrase, Global Britain. We are working out a new constructive relationship with Europe and we are excited about that. We are very confident that it is going in the right direction but the world is a big place. Africa has always been important to us, particularly when Teresa May was prime minister. Since then, we’ve had a very defined Africa strategy.

But there is a hierarchy in that strategy. Right now, it seems that your favourite kid is Rwanda, isn’t it?

I wouldn’t say favourite kid. I think we’ve learnt that we have to have a typology, different relationships with different partners. Our generic approach is that we have a partnership of equals. However, countries are at different stages of partnership with the UK, different stages of their own development so we have to calibrate our relationships to suit our partners.

What is the attraction of Rwanda, quite objectively?

 Africa is the place of future growth. I think countries like Rwanda and Mauritius are really grabbing that and doing exciting things and we want to partner with those ambitious countries.

What kinds of exciting things are happening in Mauritius?

 (Laughs) For me, going back to that aspiration of being a regional partner, that’s really important because Africa is a tough neighbourhood. African partners are working hard on the values that really matter to us around democracy, governance, stability…but also around growth and supporting the international system. Mauritius, for us, encapsulates all those important things. The indices are in Mauritius’ favour; it is doing relatively better on its governance issues than elsewhere in the region.

But we do not rank very high on international rankings, do we?

 I think relatively to partners in the region, Mauritius is doing well.

Some partners, you mean, because we are no longer number one.

 Sure, I think we have to bear in mind that the whole world has had to struggle post Covid-19 and the war in Ukraine. We are all trying to do better. That includes the UK and I think that probably includes Mauritius as well, but at least we’re trying.

I would like to promote greater female representation, greater female voices but not just at the top level. It is important to give women at every single level and socioeconomic layer the confidence to control their own lives, to do their own thing and to be the best version they can be of themselves.

So is that what we’re getting good marks for? Trying?

I wouldn’t say that. I think it’s important that Mauritius aspires to be the best it can be in this tough region.

Talking about your presence in Mauritius, it is taking place at a more favourable time than that of your predecessors, as now there seems to be a will from the UK to initiate talks with Mauritius about the Chagos archipelago. Are the discussions going to come to a denouement sometime soon in your opinion?

I think we have absolutely opened negotiations as you know. The discussions so far have been constructive and positive. At the moment, we are looking at the progress of that and we are going to consider our next step. But, I think it is really important that we have been able to open this constructive dialogue.

 I am active on the issues of substance but you won’t see me in the press, saying stuff for the sake of it. I will promote a message when there is a message of substance to promote.

Some Chagossians are objecting to opening this dialogue without them having a seat at the table. How will that influence the discussions?

The views within the Chagossian community, which is a big community spread over three countries, are different. Certainly, those views are important to us. We are holding an engagement session with all Chagossian representatives everywhere, whether they are in Mauritius, the Seychelles or the UK. It is an open and inclusive invitation that is being hosted by a Foreign Office minister in the UK. We have extended the invitation to the Mauritian High Commission as well just to hear their views. We engage with everyone and I think that is really important. We do not exclude people if they do not agree with us.

Fair enough. Now I would like us to talk a bit about education. I had a series of interviews with other ambassadors from other countries and the general idea seems to be that UK universities are no longer taking the lead as far as recruiting Mauritian students is concerned. They believe that countries like Canada are attracting more Mauritian students than Britain, which used to get the lion’s share of Mauritian students. How do you feel about that?

At the end of the day, this is a vibrant society and the world is at its feet. If there are other countries with good tertiary education systems, that is good for Mauritius.

Is it good for the UK, though? 

I am very confident that the UK higher education offered to Mauritius is very, very strong. I know this because I am a product of it. My parents who left Mauritius in 1966 are a product of it as well. Many people in my office are a product of it. I know that we have some of the most prestigious universities in the UK and they offer Mauritian students some of the highest quality standards of education. Because our reputation is so strong, we actually attract great teaching staff from professors around the world. It’s interesting because I actually think that the education the UK offers is pretty diverse. You can have institutions like the School of Oriental and African Studies, which attracts the best Indian and African professors. We’ve also got some of the best universities in terms of Science, Research and Development. The Oxford University lab is world famous now because of the AstraZeneca lab. So, I think we are still massively competitive.

Why aren’t you attracting the same number of students you used to then?

I think we still attract a good amount; we are always keen to do better. The number of Mauritians studying overseas fell for the fourth year running to reach 8,079 in 2019. France/La Reunion saw 1,802 students (22.3%) followed by Australia – 1,550 (19.2%), Canada – 1,050 (13.0%) and India – 700 (8.7%). We received 1,020; that is 12.6%.

You used to be far ahead of Australia and Canada! What about new admissions?

With regard to new admissions of Mauritian students overseas, the number went up by 6.4 % to 2,695 in 2019 as compared to 2,532 in 2018. I know that certainly, in terms of the visa service, it can always be better, but I think our offer is competitive. Mauritian students can stay on for two years after they graduate in the UK, which gives them the opportunity to access a really vibrant range of jobs and employment opportunities within two years to really further their careers.

But they have to be able to find a job before and the economy has seen better days, hasn’t it?

It is a challenging time everywhere but the UK, in terms of financial services for example, is certainly seen as within the top two financial centres in the world. The city of London attracts all the brightest and the best. There are lots of great potential job markets, for Mauritian graduates in terms of financial services, law, corporate law, management consulting, accountancy, which I know is always a Mauritian favourite, my own parents were accountants. In terms of science as well, we have architecture, engineering, the Arts. I think what we offer, not only in London, but in Manchester, Liverpool and Scotland perhaps as well, is very international.

The problem is that students, once they finish their education, in spite of the new regulations allowing them to theoretically stay in the UK for two years, feel that it is tough to find a job. Isn’t that something that the UK would maybe like to work on to attract more students?
 

We always want to be competitive and we always want to be attractive, of course. Our immigration regulations are what they are but we are always working really closely, including with our Home Office, to make sure that Mauritian students, or students from elsewhere choose the UK as it is an honour for us and we are really grateful when they do. We want to work with our immigration service to make sure the graduates’ experience is as positive as it can be. Yes, immigration rules are tough, but we were always very closely in touch with the Home Office to try and make them as helpful and encouraging to Mauritian and other international students. I think what we have had, unfortunately, over the past two-three years is an immigration service that has been stretched by the situation first in Syria with a lot of arrivals, then in Afghanistan and now in Ukraine. So, it is a stretched service but it is a service that understands that it has to support the wider UK offer and that includes a strong international education offer.

On a personal level, since you took office, you have not been much in the public eye. Was that intentional?

My approach to media is that you have to say something of substance. We have been quite active in promoting the new work that we do. For example, this week, we signed a new corporation agreement on pharmaceuticals. I have been out there, certainly beating the drum for Mauritian tourism... I am active on the issues of substance but you won’t see me in the press, saying stuff for the sake of it. I will promote a message when there is a message of substance to promote. For example, around the death of Her Majesty, it was important to show how the UK was changing. Around the COP26 climate conference, we had a very proactive campaign. It is at those important that we matter to the UK Mauritian bilateral relationship and our relationship on the international stage. This is when our engagement and public communication are important. For me, messaging around substance is really important.

You haven’t been communicating much around education, have you?

 We have worked really hard to help facilitate accessing a UK qualification whether it is a university qualification or a personal accreditation online. Covid-19 has meant that education is delivered in a different way with lots of hybrid options. What we have certainly seen is a real promotion of learning and getting a qualification without necessarily having to move to the UK. We have branch campuses here and Mauritius is home to over 40 UK awarding bodies. You are able to access a high quality UK education and get that qualification without moving to the UK and that is really important.

But students do want to go abroad eventually at some point, which is why countries like Canada are now attracting masses of students. Setting up campuses here is fine but that doesn’t respond to the aspirations of all the students.

I also hope that Mauritians want to stay here and make their country great. I think that that is an important message as well.

I like the idealism behind that statement, but to make your country great, you have to be given equal opportunities. I’m not going to ask you if you have seen equal opportunities in this country or should I?

(Laughs) No, thank you for letting me off on that one. I understand! My parents did that themselves but I think an important message is that Mauritius needs its youth and its young people. I firmly believe that the UK education offer is still more robust than any other country but brain drain and flight of talent are not something I necessarily want to promote.

Does that mean everyone should stay home?

I think it is an individual choice. We want to be as competitive as possible and, as I’ve said, those two years are really important and the fact that the UK attracts the best international firms and has got its own great national firms in itself means that the job opportunities are there and students have two years to maximise that. The other thing I wanted to highlight is that research has been important to our international education offer. We are really keen to boost research in the Mauritian higher education landscape and ecosystem as well. We are collaborating with partners like the University of Mauritius.

As a Mauritian born, how do you feel coming back to the country of your birth?

I am really proud of my heritage, the country of my birth and I am really proud to represent the country that made me. I think Mauritius has improved a lot since the gloomy predictions after independence and it has shown what a small island can do. Of course, there are lots of challenges as in the UK.

What kinds of challenges strike you as worth highlighting?

I think that we are all facing some really difficult economic headwinds. You see it in the UK, Europe, around the world, and I think Mauritius faces the same issues. Building back after Covid-19 was tough and no one expected the war in Ukraine. So, I believe now is the time for people to be working together through constructive and positive dialogue and partnerships.

Are there any projects that you are interested in, any battles that you are fighting and that you promote while you are here?

Battles would not be the right word. There are some things that really matter to me, such as female empowerment which has always been important. Whenever you use the word feminism, it is immediately taken as something that is antagonistic. I am a feminist but in a way that is about role modelling and challenging the status quo, not about making the situation for men worse. So, I would like to promote greater female representation, greater female voices but not just at the top level. It is important to give women at every single level and socioeconomic layer the confidence to control their own lives, to do their own thing and to be the best version they can be of themselves.

Are you in favour of quotas?

I don’t know. I do not have any rigid view on that because I think the evidence points you in both directions. You can’t make a change without some kind of direct intervention but I believe meritocracy is very important as well. My parents always told me that you have got to work hard and show it. There is no free lunch.